Legislature(1997 - 1998)
02/19/1998 09:11 AM House STA
| Audio | Topic |
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE STATE AFFAIRS STANDING COMMITTEE
February 19, 1998
9:11 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Jeannette James, Chair
Representative Ivan Ivan, Vice Chairman
Representative Ethan Berkowitz
Representative Fred Dyson
Representative Kim Elton
Representative Mark Hodgins
Representative Al Vezey
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Al Vezey
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 105(FIN) am
"An Act relating to legislative and executive branch ethics;
relating to campaign finances for candidates for state office;
relating to the conduct and regulation of lobbyists with respect to
public officials; relating to the filing of disclosures by certain
state employees and officials; making a conforming amendment to the
definition of `public official' for employment security statutes;
and providing for an effective date."
- ASSIGNED TO SUBCOMMITTEE
SENATE BILL NO. 122
"An Act relating to unfair discrimination under a group health
insurance policy for services provided by marital and family
therapists; and providing for an effective date."
- MOVED HCSSB 122(STA) OUT OF COMMITTEE
HOUSE BILL NO. 168
"An Act relating to use of traditional means of access to assist in
taking game or fish and to traditional means of access for
traditional outdoor activities on land and water set aside for fish
and game purposes; and providing for an effective date."
- HEARD AND HELD
HOUSE BILL NO. 377
"An Act relating to filling a vacancy in the office of United
States senator or in an office in the state legislature."
- SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD
(* First public hearing)
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: SB 105
SHORT TITLE: ETHICS/LOBBYING/CAMPAIGN FINANCE
SPONSOR(S): RULES BY REQUEST OF LEGISLATIVE ETHICS COMMITTEE
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
02/25/97 494 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
02/25/97 494 (S) STATE AFFAIRS, FINANCE
03/11/97 (S) STA AT 3:30 PM BELTZ ROOM 211
03/11/97 (S) MINUTE(STA)
03/13/97 (S) STA AT 3:30 PM BELTZ ROOM 211
03/13/97 (S) MINUTE(STA)
03/18/97 (S) MINUTE(STA)
03/25/97 (S) STA AT 3:30 PM BELTZ ROOM 211
03/25/97 (S) MINUTE(STA)
03/26/97 873 (S) STA RPT CS 3DP NEW TITLE
03/26/97 873 (S) DP: GREEN, MILLER, WARD
03/26/97 873 (S) FISCAL NOTE TO SB (ADM)
03/26/97 873 (S) ZERO FISCAL NOTE TO SB (LAA)
03/26/97 873 (S) FISCAL NOTE TO CS (ADM)
04/10/97 (S) FIN AT 5:00 PM SENATE FINANCE 532
04/10/97 (S) MINUTE(FIN)
04/10/97 (S) MINUTE(FIN)
04/15/97 (S) FIN AT 8:00 AM SENATE FINANCE 532
04/15/97 (S) MINUTE(FIN)
04/16/97 (S) FIN AT 8:00 AM SENATE FINANCE 532
04/16/97 (S) MINUTE(FIN)
04/16/97 (S) MINUTE(FIN)
04/16/97 1163 (S) FIN RPT CS 2DP 5NR NEW TITLE
04/16/97 1163 (S) DP: PEARCE; DP IF AM: PHILLIPS
04/16/97 1163 (S) NR: SHARP, PARNELL, ADAMS, TORGERSON,
04/16/97 1163 (S) DONLEY
04/16/97 1163 (S) PREVIOUS ZERO FN APPLIES (LAA)
04/16/97 1163 (S) ZERO FNS TO CS (LABOR, LAW)
04/16/97 1163 (S) PREVIOUS ZERO FN APPLIES (LAA)
04/18/97 (S) RLS AT 10:45 AM FAHRENKAMP RM 203
04/18/97 (S) MINUTE(RLS)
04/18/97 1276 (S) RULES TO CALENDAR & 1NR 4/18/97
04/18/97 1279 (S) READ THE SECOND TIME
04/18/97 1279 (S) FIN CS ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT
04/18/97 1280 (S) AM NO 1 OFFERED AND WITHDRAWN
04/18/97 1281 (S) AM NO 2 FAILED Y4 N13 E3
04/18/97 1282 (S) AM NO 3 FAILED Y4 N13 E3
04/18/97 1283 (S) AMENDMENTS 4, 5 NOT OFFERED
04/18/97 1283 (S) AM NO 6 ADOPTED Y12 N5 E3
04/18/97 1285 (S) AM NO 7 FAILED Y7 N10 E3
04/18/97 1286 (S) AM NO 8 FAILED Y5 N12 E3
04/18/97 1287 (S) AM NO 9 ADOPTED Y17 N- E3
04/18/97 1291 (S) ADVANCED TO THIRD READING UNAN
CONSENT
04/18/97 1291 (S) READ THE THIRD TIME CSSB 105(FIN) AM
04/18/97 1292 (S) PASSED Y15 N2 E3
04/18/97 1292 (S) EFFECTIVE DATE(S) SAME AS PASSAGE
04/18/97 1292 (S) LINCOLN NOTICE OF RECONSIDERATION
04/21/97 1334 (S) RECON TAKEN UP - IN THIRD READING
04/21/97 1335 (S) RETURN TO SECOND FOR AM 10 UNAN
CONSENT
04/21/97 1335 (S) AM NO 10 ADOPTED Y14 N5 E1
04/21/97 1336 (S) AUTOMATICALLY IN THIRD READING
04/21/97 1337 (S) PASSED ON RECONSIDERATION Y17 N2 E1
04/21/97 1337 (S) EFFECTIVE DATE(S) SAME AS PASSAGE
04/21/97 1370 (S) TRANSMITTED TO (H)
04/22/97 1232 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
04/22/97 1233 (H) STATE AFFAIRS, FINANCE
02/05/98 (H) STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 102
02/05/98 (H) MINUTE(STA)
02/12/98 (H) STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 102
02/17/98 (H) STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 102
BILL: SB 122
SHORT TITLE: INS.COVERAGE:MARRIAGE & FAMILY THERAPIST
SPONSOR(S): LABOR & COMMERCE BY REQUEST
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
03/06/97 597 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
03/06/97 597 (S) L&C, HES
04/08/97 (S) L&C AT 1:30 PM FAHRENKAMP RM 203
04/08/97 (S) MINUTE(L&C)
04/09/97 1049 (S) L&C RPT CS 1DP 3NR SAME TITLE
04/09/97 1049 (S) DP: LEMAN; NR: KELLY, MACKIE, MILLER
04/09/97 1049 (S) ZERO FN TO SB & CS (DCED)
04/16/97 (S) HES AT 9:00 AM BUTROVICH ROOM 205
04/16/97 (S) MINUTE(HES)
04/16/97 1164 (S) HES RPT 3DP 2NR (L&C)CS
04/16/97 1164 (S) DP: WARD, LEMAN, ELLIS NR: GREEN,
WILKEN
04/16/97 1164 (S) PREVIOUS ZERO FN (DCED)
04/21/97 (S) RLS AT 10:45 AM FAHRENKAMP RM 203
04/21/97 (S) MINUTE(RLS)
04/21/97 1331 (S) RULES TO CALENDAR 4/21/97
04/21/97 1344 (S) READ THE SECOND TIME
04/21/97 1344 (S) L&C CS ADOPTED Y15 N4 E1
04/21/97 1344 (S) ADVANCED TO THIRD READING UNAN
CONSENT
04/21/97 1344 (S) READ THE THIRD TIME CSSB 122(L&C)
04/21/97 1345 (S) PASSED Y13 N6 E1
04/21/97 1345 (S) EFFECTIVE DATE PASSED Y15 N4 E1
04/21/97 1345 (S) DUNCAN NOTICE OF RECONSIDERATION
04/22/97 1420 (S) RECON TAKEN UP - IN THIRD READING
04/22/97 1420 (S) PLACED AT BOTTOM OF CALENDAR
04/22/97 1429 (S) HELD ON RECONSIDERATION TO 4/23
CALENDAR
04/23/97 1452 (S) BEFORE THE SENATE ON RECONSIDERATION
04/23/97 1452 (S) RETURN TO RLS COMMITTEE
05/08/97 (S) RLS AT 8:25 PM FAHRENKAMP RM 203
05/08/97 (S) MINUTE(RLS)
05/09/97 1891 (S) RULES TO CAL ON RECONSIDERATION
IN 3RD
05/09/97 1923 (S) IN THIRD READING ON RECONSIDERATION
05/09/97 1923 (S) RTN 2ND RESCIND PREVIOUS ACTION
UAN CON
05/09/97 1924 (S) RESCINDED ADOPTING L&C CS Y13 N6 E1
05/09/97 1924 (S) FAILED TO ADOPT L&C CS Y4 N15 E1
05/09/97 1924 (S) AUTOMATICALLY IN THIRD READING SB 122
05/09/97 1925 (S) LETTER OF INTENT FAILED Y7 N12 E1
05/09/97 1926 (S) PASSED ON RECONSIDERATION Y15 N4 E1
05/09/97 1926 (S) EFFECTIVE DATE(S) SAME AS PASSAGE
05/09/97 1932 (S) TRANSMITTED TO (H)
05/09/97 1786 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
05/09/97 1786 (H) STATE AFFAIRS, L&C, WTR
02/19/98 (H) STA AT 9:05 AM CAPITOL 102
BILL: HB 168
SHORT TITLE: TRADITIONAL ACCESS FOR TRADITIONAL ACTIVI
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVES(S) MASEK, Kohring
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
03/05/97 543 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
03/05/97 543 (H) RESOURCES, STATE AFFAIRS
02/05/98 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124
02/05/98 (H) MINUTE(RES)
02/06/98 2232 (H) RES RPT CS(RES) 3DP 2DNP 2NR
02/06/98 2232 (H) DP: MASEK, OGAN, DYSON; DNP: JOULE
02/06/98 2232 (H) NICHOLIA; NR: HUDSON, GREEN
02/06/98 2233 (H) ZERO FISCAL NOTE (F&G)
02/19/98 (H) STA AT 9:05 AM CAPITOL 102
WITNESS REGISTER
BEVERLY LINDELL, Past President and
Current Legislative Chair
Alaska Association for Marriage
and Family Therapy
P.O. Box 32481
Juneau, Alaska
Telephone: (907) 790-3202
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of CSSB 122(L&C).
MICHAEL WEINGARTEN, Board Member
Alaska Association for Marriage
and Family Therapy
Human Relations Center
1709 South Bragaw, Suite A
Anchorage, Alaska 99508
Telephone: (907) 272-5500
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of CSSB 122(L&C).
VIVIAN FINDLAY
Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist
P.O. Box 872433
Wasilla, Alaska 99687
Telephone: (907) 373-6006
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of CSSB 122(L&C).
ELAINE WILLIAMS, Public Member
Board of Marital and Family Therapy
Division of Occupational Licensing
Department of Commerce and Economic Development
2206 Peters Lane
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 463-5247
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of CSSB 122(L&C).
PAM WAATS, President
American Counseling Association of Alaska;
and a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist
P.O. Box 240594
Douglas, Alaska 99824
Telephone: (907) 5861547
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of CSSB 122(L&C).
DIXIE HOOD, Marriage and Family Therapist
9350 View Drive
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 586-2200
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of CSSB 122(L&C).
REPRESENTATIVE BEVERLY MASEK
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 432
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 465-2679
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of HB 168.
EDDIE GRASSER, Legislative Assistant
to Representative Beverly Masek
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 432
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 465-2679
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions regarding of HB 168.
DON SHERWOOD
Alaska Boating Association
1640 Brink Drive
Anchorage, Alaska 99504
Telephone: (907) 333-6268
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 168.
MICHAEL EASTHAM
Homer Anchor Point Snow Machine Club
Box 475
Homer, Alaska 99603
Telephone: (907) 235-2603
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 168.
BILL EASTHAM, President
Mat-Su Motor Mushers
HC 03, Box 8286
Palmer, Alaska 99745
Telephone: (907) 245-3043
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 168.
WALTER "RED" DECKER
HC 01, Box 6486D
Palmer, Alaska 99645
Telephone: (907) 745-6784
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 168.
LEONARD HAIRE
P.O. Box 879030
Wasilla, Alaska 99687
Telephone: (907) 373-6183
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 168.
CLIFF JUDKINS, President
Alaska Boating Association
P.O. Box 871310
Wasilla, Alaska 99687
Telephone: (907) 373-3591
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 168.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 98-20, SIDE A
Number 0001
CHAIR JEANNETTE JAMES called the House State Affairs Standing
Committee meeting to order at 9:11 a.m. Members present at the
call to order were Representatives James, Berkowitz, Dyson and
Ivan. Representatives Elton and Hodgins arrived as the meeting was
in progress.
CSSB 105(FIN) AM - ETHICS/LOBBYING/CAMPAIGN FINANCE
Number 082
CHAIR JAMES announced to the committee members that she has put
CSSB 105(FIN) am, "An Act relating to legislative and executive
branch ethics; relating to campaign finances for candidates for
state office; relating to the conduct and regulation of lobbyists
with respect to public officials; relating to the filing of
disclosures by certain state employees and officials; making a
conforming amendment to the definition of `public official' for
employment security statutes; and providing for an effective date,"
into a subcommittee. The subcommittee members are Representatives
James, Ivan and Berkowitz. She informed the committee that the
first meeting of the subcommittee will be held on Tuesday, February
24, from 3:00 p.m. to 5:00 p.m.
SB 122 - INS.COVERAGE:MARRIAGE & FAMILY THERAPIST
Number 0142
CHAIR JAMES announced the committee would hear SB 122, "An Act
relating to unfair discrimination under a group health insurance
policy for services provided by marital and family therapists; and
providing for an effective date." She informed the committee
members that the bill was introduced by the Senate Labor and
Commerce Committee by request of the Alaska Association for
Marriage and Family Therapy (AAMFT). She asked Ms. Lindell of the
association to present the bill.
Number 0196
REPRESENTATIVE FRED DYSON noted for the record that he has a
conflict of interest as his wife is a licensed marriage and family
counselor and would significantly benefit if the legislation
becomes law.
CHAIR JAMES asked if there was an objection to Representative Dyson
having a conflict. She noted he would be expected to vote.
Number 0222
REPRESENTATIVE IVAN IVAN said there are no objections.
Number 0258
BEVERLY LINDELL, Past President, Current Legislative Chair, Alaska
Association for Marriage and Family Therapy, came before the
committee. Ms. Lindell explained that the bill adds licensed
marriage and family therapists to the list of providers against
whom insurers cannot discriminate. She stated they are one of the
identified five core mental health providers as identified by the
National Institute of Mental Health. The other groups, social
workers, psychologists, psychiatric (indisc.) and psychiatrists are
already covered under this bill. Ms. Lindell said it is a fairness
issue for her group because they would like to be at the table with
their peers in this matter. They are a licensed group. She stated
that is also important for consumers in that it gives them a
greater access to services. A recent national survey showed that
consumers more often refer to marriage and family therapists when
given the choice. Ms. Lindell said there are other people who wish
to testify as to the importance of their services.
Number 0400
REPRESENTATIVE IVAN asked how many people were involved in this
effort.
MS. LINDELL explained that the AAMFT has approximately 80 members.
In addition, there are about 150 licensed marriage and family
therapists in the state.
Number 0443
MICHAEL WEINGARTEN, Board Member, Alaska Association for Marriage
and Family Therapy, testified via teleconference from Anchorage.
He informed the committee members that he is a licensed marriage
and family therapist. He said he has lived in Alaska for 20 years
and has been working in the mental health field for the past 23
years. He said marriage and family therapists treat a variety of
difficult problems and cases. Mr. Weingarten stated that his case
load includes cases of child abuse, school and work problems,
sexual abuse, domestic violence, drug and alcohol abuse,
delinquency, divorce and major depression. He said he would like
to emphasize that the bill does not require insurers to add mental
health coverage. He pointed out that the bill supports the
public's free choice of licensed qualified providers. Marriage and
family therapists are very cost effective. They can treat several
members of a family simultaneously. They are located throughout
the state of Alaska. They do preventative work and have high
professional standards. Mr. Weingarten referred to the bill and
stated that they are not requiring anybody to pay any more for
coverage and aren't requiring anybody to cover any new service,
condition or procedure that they're not already covering. He
stated that the bill doesn't create an incentive for clients to
spend more and it doesn't create a reason for insurance companies
to spend more. The public will have greater access to a variety of
professional licensed mental health providers. This means access
to the provider of your choice. There would be more choices for
the consumer without costing them more money and it means there
will be more competition amongst providers in the marketplace. Mr.
Weingarten said the people would have greater access to a variety
of professional licensed mental health providers. Access to
quality mental health care is good public policy, it decreases
lateness and absenteeism on the job, it decreases unnecessary
physical health care, it decreases employee disability costs, it
decreases public financial assistance rates, it decreases workers'
compensation claims and it increases job-related productivity. He
encouraged the committee to support the legislation.
Number 0655
VIVIAN FINDLAY, Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, testified
from the Mat-Su Legislative Information Office (LIO). She said she
has been in the mental health field for 22 years and in Alaska for
almost 15 years. She said she has had her own practice for about
11 years. Ms. Findlay stated that she is very much in support of
the legislation for the reasons that Ms. Lindell and Mr. Weingarten
have mentioned. She said, "I just wanted to add that we along with
the other mental health professionals who are already licensed and
are already included as providers for insurance purposes do very
similar kinds of work, but we have a slightly different orientation
of marriage and family therapists. And I do agree that there seems
to be no reason that we should be excluded because we do provide
excellent services. Thank you."
Number 0720
ELAINE WILLIAMS, Public Member, Board of Marital and Family
Therapy, Division of Occupational Licensing, Department of Commerce
and Economic Development, came before the committee to testify in
support of SB 122. She said that as a public member, she would
like to be able to choose who she would see if she needed some
sort of therapy. This legislation offers that opportunity with
whatever insurance carrier she has.
CHAIR JAMES noted there is a proposed State Affairs committee
substitute, Version H, dated 2/17/98.
Number 0775
REPRESENTATIVE KIM ELTON made a motion to adopt the proposed
committee substitute, Version H, before the committee. There being
no objection, that version was before the committee.
Number 0795
PAM WAATS, President, American Counseling Association of Alaska;
and a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, came before the
committee to testify. She said as a state of Alaska licensed
behavioral health care provider, marriage and family therapists
provide therapeutic services within the scope of their license and
their expertise. As such, it would not only be discriminatory to
this group of mental health service providers for third party
payers to refuse payment for professional services, but it also
limits the choice of consumers to select qualified professionals
who would best meet their needs. She said she would strongly
encourage the committee to support parity for the Alaska marriage
and family therapists.
Number 0857
DIXIE HOOD, Marriage and Family Therapist, came before the
committee to testify. She informed the committee that she has been
in Alaska for 23 years and has been in private practice as a
marriage and family therapist for the last 12 years. She said she
would discuss how the present situation has impacted her work in
negative ways as a self-employed person. She said until licensure
was attained for marriage and family therapists, it was very
difficult to get insurance reimbursement without having supervision
by a medical doctor documented. When licensure occurred, it helped
things as AETNA no longer had any problem with reimbursement. She
informed the committee that there are a number of insurance
companies that will not reimburse in Alaska even though they do in
California and other states. They won't in Alaska because they can
get away with it. Ms. Hood told the committee that one insurance
company that has impacted her is Blue Cross. In Juneau, all of the
city employees have Blue Cross insurance coverage. She said she is
cut out of providing services to the city employees unless people
are willing to self-pay and give up the possibility of
compensation. Ms. Hood stated that last year she had a young women
from Ketchikan, who is in her early 20s who had been severely
injured in an accident. That woman's attorney had contacted her
about providing services. Ms. Hood stated that she did provide
services to the woman as she was extremely depressed and will be
disabled for the rest of her life. Ms. Hood said she did provide
services and the young woman was able to pay her out of a
settlement from the accident, but she had expected to be reimbursed
by Blue Cross. Ms. Hood said she and the young woman received a
document back from Blue Cross that said, "Services by this provider
are not covered." The amount was for $1,467. She urged the
committee to pass the legislation.
Number 1064
REPRESENTATIVE MARK HODGINS made a motion to move HCSSB 122(STA)
from committee with individual recommendations and with the
attached fiscal note. There being no objection, HCSSB 122(STA)
moved out of the State Affairs Standing Committee.
HB 168 - TRADITIONAL ACCESS FOR TRADITIONAL ACTIVITIES
Number 1149
CHAIR JAMES announced the committee would address HB 168, "An Act
relating to use of traditional means of access to assist in taking
game or fish and to traditional means of access for traditional
outdoor activities on land and water set aside for fish and game
purposes; and providing for an effective date," sponsored by
Representative Masek.
An at-ease was taken to await the arrival of the sponsor.
REPRESENTATIVE BEVERLY MASEK came before the committee and read the
following statement into the record:
"House Bill 168 was introduced as a companion measure to access
bills, HB 23 and SB 35, which was passed by the legislature last
year. Public access to the resources they own has been one of my
primary areas of concern and I believe this bill completes the
effort I began three years ago.
"Since the passage of ANILCA [Alaska National Interest Lands
Conservation Act] in 1980, Madam Chairman, the land tied up in
conservation units in Alaska, both on federal and state land, makes
up a large percentage of public lands. Many of these lands are
either restricted by law or by some sort of features dealing with
the conservation aspect. Furthermore, there are millions of acres
of private land where access has been restricted. If we are going
to consider further restrictions it seems to me they should take
into account the amount of land set aside already for restricted
use, and whether the restriction is for truly necessary reasons or
at the request of a special interest group.
"The previous hearing on this bill brought out some concerns that
appeared to be generated by misconceptions. I would like to try to
clear up those misunderstandings, Madam Chairman.
"House Bill 168 grandfathers in all of the existing controlled use
areas in the establishment of refuges and critical habitat areas
has always been by legislative action. Secondly, House Bill 168
specifically allows the board to act without legislative
intervention if a biological concern is evident. So this bill will
not give the Board of Fish or Game the authority to close public
lands only unless it was a biological factor, which I think is very
important. Last and most importantly, Madam Chairman, House Bill
168 does not prevent the boards from creating controlled use areas
with access restrictions if it lasts more than 2.5 months a year
and or a larger parcel of 640 acres or more.
"Once again, Madam Chairman, thank you for this opportunity to
discuss House Bill 168 before your committee and I look forward to
working with you to put this final piece of legislation in place to
protect the ability of Alaskans to access the resource they own."
Number 1366
CHAIR JAMES asked what effect, if any, does this legislation have
on private property.
REPRESENTATIVE MASEK stated that the bill does not deal with
private property.
CHAIR JAMES said the bill would only affect state and federal lands
that are designated other than by the Bureau of Land Management
(BLM).
REPRESENTATIVE MASEK responded that it only affects state lands.
CHAIR JAMES asked if it affects state lands if they are designated
as parks or refuges.
REPRESENTATIVE MASEK stated, "That was one provision that is not in
the bill as DNR [Department of Natural Resources], so that would
not affect any of the state parks or the national refuges."
CHAIR JAMES asked if there will be a mapping of the traditional
access routes so that we know that they will be preserved. She
said her concern is if some of this land is sold or is transferred
in any way to private ownership, would the legislation establish a
history for a route so that the route can't be erased.
Number 1446
EDDIE GRASSER, Legislative Assistant to Representative Beverly
Masek, Alaska State Legislature, came before the committee to
respond to the question. He stated the bill doesn't pertain to
that. It only deals with the Board of Game and Board of Fisheries
regulations which deal with hunting and fishing. Access routes
(indisc.) and access across land are DNR prerogative as far as
mapping the trails. The bill only deals with regulation of hunters
and fishermen as they access the resources that they're targeting.
Number 1479
CHAIR JAMES asked, "Would you kind of tell me what these kinds of
traditional access - means of access might be?"
MR. GRASSER responded that one of the more utilized areas for
access off road system is unit 13 in the Nelchina Basin just north
of Anchorage or south of Fairbanks. Both the population of
Anchorage and Fairbanks utilizes this area a great deal. Mr.
Grasser pointed out that there is a large network of trail systems
that go into unit 13. Snow machiners, hikers, horseback riders,
cross country skiers and all terrain vehicles all access this area.
He referred to hunting and said it wouldn't be practical to close
an area like this because it is 80 miles from the nearest highway
to the Oshetna River. Most of the people who are accessing this
area for hunting are either hunting moose or caribou. He indicated
that he has spent a great deal of time hunting professionally and
said it would be physically impossible for anybody to hunt the
Oshetna River without having some kind of motorized access to get
there.
Number 1559
REPRESENTATIVE ELTON informed the committee that he sees a
potential conflict which is repeated twice in Section 1 of the
bill. He said the Board of Fisheries or the Board of Game cannot
ban the use of traditional means of access "unless" the ban is
temporary in nature and effective cumulatively less than 8 months
in a 3-year period. He said another exception under the "unless"
provision is unless it's biologically essential for the protection
of the game resource or a fish resource. Representative Elton said
it seems to him that those two provisions may be in conflict. If
it is necessary or biologically essential for the protection of the
game resource, that necessity may be for longer than an 8-month
period. He asked which clause is a pre-eminent clause. He asked
if it could be longer than 8 months in a 3-year period if it is
biologically necessary or is the pre-eminent clause unless it's
temporary in nature....
CHAIR JAMES interjected, "I guess underneath (4) it says 'or'. So
I think those are all 'ors' not 'ands.'"
REPRESENTATIVE ELTON said that it seems to him that the two
provisions may be in conflict.
Number 1633
REPRESENTATIVE MASEK said, "This provision here, if you take a look
at the history in the state here, there have not been any closures
of any type. For emergency purposes, it has been closed more than
the given time here. What we're trying to do here pretty much
gives the opportunity for the Board of Game if let's say there is
a salmon problem and they close it down. With our seasons in
Alaska, it's very uncommon to see something that's shut down for a
longer period of time, but if it's for a biological reason then
this bill would give that opportunity for them to care for that
matter."
CHAIR JAMES referred to number (3), "biologically essential for the
protection of a game resource or of fish or game habitat;". She
asked what would happen if there was a four-wheeler trail and the
use of that trail was so extensive that there are ruts forming and
runoff occurring to where it was affecting a stream or some other
habitat. She asked if the evidence is there, could they restrict
four-wheelers from going over the trail. She also asked if they
could do it for more than 8 months out of 3 years.
Number 1707
MR. GRASSER informed the committee that the Board of Fisheries and
the Board of Game only have the authority to enact restrictions on
access as it pertains to actual hunting or fishing. He explained
that the Department of Natural Resources has the ultimate authority
over those types of access issues. He pointed out that the issue
was raised during the discussion of unit 13 at the November board
meeting. It was pointed out to the board by their attorney that
they only have the opportunity to restrict access as it pertained
to people actually hunting. He said if people were recreationally
riding their ORV (off-road vehicles), the Board of Game did not
have the authority to restrict that. They would have to go to DNR
and get concurrence for that type of restriction.
Number 1768
REPRESENTATIVE ELTON asked what would happen if the Board of
Fisheries made a decision that the catch impact at a remote river
is too high and one way of reducing that catch impact is to
restrict motorized access. He said it would be a management
decision to protect a biological resource. If they made that
decision, they would then be restricted to only allow that decision
to stand for no longer than 8 months out of a 3-year period.
MR. GRASSER responded, "I think part of the problem with that type
of discussion is people's lack of understanding of actual - like
season on -- that could happen on say a rainbow trout fishery, but
if you're talking about a salmon fishery then you're probably
talking about a restriction that could take place in 2 months every
year. You'd still take care of the problem because you have a weak
run. You want to close the fishery down. You want to restrict
access. You could do that forever. You'd never have to come to
the legislature for approval because you'd meet the 8-month test.
And you basically have targeted the prime fishing area of the
summer months - that when a motor boat could be used."
REPRESENTATIVE ELTON pointed out that it could also be winter
months. There could be snow machine access for ice fishing. He
said you wouldn't necessarily be talking about a seasonal fishery
unless you're talking about a migratory species.
Number 1855
MR. GRASSER said that is correct. He said, "There again you'd have
to -- like on a snow machine going out for ice fishing, the board
would have to probably use some other tool because, again, DNR
would have the ultimate authority over whether or not people could
actually snow machine in that area unless they were fishing."
Number 1900
DON SHERWOOD, Alaska Boating Association, testified via
teleconference from Anchorage in support of HB 168. He explained
the association is made up of motorized and nonmotorized users with
100 percent of hunters and fisher persons. If the legislation is
passed, we can be assured of management for all users of
traditional means of access. He indicated that there are special
interest groups that are misinforming the public and referred to a
specific letter from Kay Brown of the Alaska Conservation
(Indisc.). He referred to page 2, line 11, "biologically essential
for the protection of a fishery resource or of fish and game
habitat;", and said if this isn't as plain as it can be written, he
doesn't know what is. Mr. Sherwood informed the committee that his
organization has been adamant about the protection of our habitat.
He urged that the bill be passed. Mr. Sherwood also asked the
committee to consider passing HJR 39.
Number 2000
MICHAEL EASTHAM, Homer Anchor Point Snow Machine Club, testified
via teleconference from Homer in support of HB 168. He said the
bill does not discriminate against any type of user group. This
means that any user group could use and have access of state lands
including handicapped people who can't hike or ski. Mr. Eastham
pointed out that the Department of Fish and Game always has the
alternative to close a fishing or hunting season to protect the
resource. They could also shorten bag limits. By closing or
having shortened bag limits, it will cut down on the number of
people who actually use the resource. The bill guarantees equal
access to the opportunity to hunt or fish by leaving it open to
everyone. Mr. Eastham referred to a state park survey and said
over 94 percent of Alaskans recreate in some form in the outdoors.
This is the highest per capita in United States. He said he
believes it would be criminal to close state lands to select user
groups by restricting the ORVs of traditional use.
Number 2077
BILL EASTHAM, President, Mat-Su Motor Mushers, testified from the
Mat-Su LIO. He said he would echo the comments of his brother,
Michael Eastham. He concluded that the Mat-Su Motor Mushers
supports HB 168.
Number 2094
WALTER "RED" DECKER testified via teleconference from the Mat-Su
Legislative Information Office. He informed the committee he has
spoken with many people around the state regarding HB 168. Mr.
Decker referred the committee to Article VIII, 1, of the
Constitution of Alaska, "Section 1. Statement of Policy. It is the
policy of the state to encourage the settlement of its land and the
development of its resources by making them available for maximum
use consistent with the public interest." He said, "And then it
says, 'The commissioner shall allow traditional access to the
Nelchina public use area by motorized or nonmotorized means of
transportation to private land interests and private land and in
the lawful sport and subsistence hunting, fishing, trapping and
recreational purposes in the manner compatible with the purpose
specified in AS 41.23.010.'" Mr. Decker stated that this is a
constitutional amendment which was revised on November 12, 1971.
He said what he has gathered from this is there is a special
interest group priority preference, conflict of interest and
neglect of representation. He said that HB 168 should have been
passed a long time ago. Mr. Decker said, "To start with, (indisc.)
how things are spread out so much. You've got the Governor, he
fights like hell for the tourism business and for the million
dollars from the Canadian government suit over the Malaspina and
the fishermen in the canneries and don't mention -- not to mention
the tour buses that tour through this state, but has done nothing
for the people inland of the state. We the people that live inland
depend on the natural resources and wildlife to put meat on the
table to families. We are required to take one moose, 50 inches,
or (indisc.) and one caribou. But here we go, the federal
government gives rural residents special permits to take any moose
and as many caribou necessary for subsistence in Glennallen, Paxson
and Delta area. This is prejudice and a conflict of interest to
other residents of the state. Unit 13 is bordered by the Denali
Highway and 90 percent of the people want it unimproved and left
alone just the way it is. That's what makes the Denali Highway
what it is. But now they sent out a questionnaire asking the
public, in other words, what they should do with it. Well this
happens to be in unit 13, the part that we're talking about right
now is the Nelchina caribou herd." Mr. Decker continued by saying
that there are thousands of miles of road in the state and in the
valley that need repair and they want to pave the Denali Highway.
They don't have the backing of the people, but they're going to do
it anyway. He stated that how things have been run is a conflict
of interest. Mr. Decker continued to give testimony in support of
HB 168.
Number 2359
LEONARD HAIRE was next to testified from the Mat-Su LIO. He
informed the committee that he is a boat manufacturer and resident
of Mat-Su. He also noted he is a member of the Alaska Boating
Association, the Alaska Outdoor Council and is an avid hunter and
fisherman. Mr. Haire said he strongly supports HB 168. The bill
has been needed for a long time. The Board of Game needs to spend
their time on the protection of game and game habitat, and less
time on trying to handle people problems. He referred to the
phrases "quality of experience" and "quality of the hunt" and said
those phrases could be defined in 1,000 different ways. He thanked
Representative Masek for introducing the bill and urged its
passage.
Number 2417
CLIFF JUDKINS, President, Alaska Boating Association, was the last
person to testify from the Mat-Su LIO. He stated that he lives in
Wasilla and is a 36-year resident of Alaska. Mr. Judkins noted he
is also a member of the Alaska Outdoor Council. He stated he
strongly supports HB 168. The restriction of access to hunting and
fishing, motorized or otherwise, should be based on sound
biological data and not on the emotions or personal likes and
dislikes of a particular individual. The option of HB 168 will
give needed direction to the Board of Fisheries and the Board of
Game who are currently spending many hours listening to proposals
and debate concerning motorized access that have nothing to do with
fish and game management. He said there will always be a debate
between those that favor efficient modern technology and those that
favor the old ways. That debate should not be carried on in the
arena of wildlife management. There are many management techniques
that do not require restriction of the means of access to the
hunting area. He thanked the committee for listening to him.
TAPE 98-20, SIDE B
Number 0001
CHAIR JAMES stated that she would close the public testimony on HB
168 with the exception of Wayne Regelin of the Department of Fish
and Game. She stated the committee would hear from Mr. Regelin at
the next hearing on HB 168. House Bill 168 was held for further
consideration.
ADJOURNMENT
Number 0011
CHAIR JAMES adjourned the House State Affairs Standing Committee
meeting at 10:00 a.m.
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